Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby JH-SM-T03 » Thu May 21, 2009 11:35 pm

Never have had a state park in Ohio ask for or request a TP in the last 30 years.
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby fritz1255 » Fri May 22, 2009 7:24 am

We have had similar experience - nobody has ever asked to see it on an event, at least not while I have been Committee Chair. We went to Gettysburg last summer, and they now have a person at McMillan Woods camping area who oversees the area and greets each youth group as they arrive. I quivered as I held our Tour Permit in my sweaty hand, expecting that (finally) someone would ask to see it, but sadly no :-(

The closest we came was when we were going to go caving a couple of months ago - the rep from the organization who was going to lead the tour asked to see our Tour Permit when he came to give training a week prior to the event. I thought that finally all the work I had done would be rewarded. Then the trip was cancelled when the cave was closed due to the white-nose bat fungus.......
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby FrankJ » Fri May 22, 2009 8:27 am

The other reason to file the tour permit is that you asking council approval for the activity. If you are teaching scouts that you should generally follow rules & policies, then you should follow them yourself.
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby wagionvigil » Fri May 22, 2009 9:35 am

Councils are actually not allowing troops to do some activities. I am for this. Reasons For Not Allowing?

1. No one is Climb on Safety Trained ( no excuse no line take a half hour)
2.No one First Aid Trained, IMHO all leaders should have to have a first aid course and CPR and actually WFA should be Mandatory.
3. No one Weather Awarness Trained ( Online No Excuse)
4.No one Trek Safely Trained No excuse Online.
5. Have not taken their Council Risk Management Course ( this is required by some councils)
6. Not Permitting caving . Enforcing the BSA age 14 caving policy.

So they have been denied and they still go. What should Happen?
There was a poster on here a while back that was evcentually removed from here due to behavior that posted a link to some Troop pictures etc. In those pictures it was discovered that he flew the troop in to a remote area in a private plane. Under BSA Policy Boy SCouts can fly on regularly scheduled Flights and on orientation flights and Must take off and land at the same airport with no in between stops on those flights. Venturing is different. It is my understanding that his council did find out about this.

WHat do you think should happen to a leader that has such disregard for rules?
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri May 22, 2009 10:46 am

wagionvigil wrote:What do you think should happen to a leader that has such disregard for rules?
If they are an extremely blatant like flight example you list above, these leaders need to be kicked out of Scouting and it should be carried out in a public forum - at the town square, full dress uniform and the shirts literally ripped off their back. Their picture should be put in the USA Today with full page ad telling the world that they risked the lives of youth and should never, ever be trusted with the life of another human being.

But then I am a graduate of the Gen. Sherman School of Public Relations where the motto is "burn it all."
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby wagionvigil » Fri May 22, 2009 11:14 am

You and I do think a lot a like on some things :lol:
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby smtroop168 » Fri May 22, 2009 12:08 pm

This whole discussion is moot. TP are required by councils whether or not you are asked for one on the other end doesn't matter. Follow the guidelines or get out.

Lock it down.

Not Yet I like to hear these guys try to justify NOT having one :lol: :twisted: :D
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri May 22, 2009 1:02 pm

I will asking for one when the Crews and those Troops opting to participate in our Fall Cardboard boatrace arrive at check in.

There will be a General "We are Unit XZY" table (to get the campsite assignment, Medical Form table and Tour Permit Table.
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby FrankJ » Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm

I will asking for one when the Crews and those Troops opting to participate in our Fall Cardboard boatrace arrive at check in.


You are going to be following Safety Afloat aren't you? :?: Lots of duct tape should be on hand.

8. Equipment
All equipment must be suited to the craft, to water conditions, and to the individual; must be in good repair; and must satisfy all state and federal requirements. Spare equipment or repair materials must be carried. Appropriate rescue equipment must be available for immediate use.
Frank J.
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Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri May 22, 2009 2:43 pm

FrankJ wrote:
I will asking for one when the Crews and those Troops opting to participate in our Fall Cardboard boatrace arrive at check in.


You are going to be following Safety Afloat aren't you? :?: Lots of duct tape should be on hand.

8. Equipment
All equipment must be suited to the craft, to water conditions, and to the individual; must be in good repair; and must satisfy all state and federal requirements. Spare equipment or repair materials must be carried. Appropriate rescue equipment must be available for immediate use.
Yes, we will be following Safety Afloat in as much as Cardboard boats allow. We will presenting the Safety Afloat course in the morning so any Crew members present can have their ticket punched for Watercraft.

Additionally, we will have rescue boats with two handlers and one rescue person and the water will only be chest deep on the planned course.
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby FrankJ » Fri May 22, 2009 3:07 pm

So there is a special accommodation for cardboard boats? No concern over safety since i feel anything you would do would be safe (seriously). I just want to be sure you are strictly following all the rules (not so seriously). :)
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
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Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri May 22, 2009 3:42 pm

FrankJ wrote:So there is a special accommodation for cardboard boats? No concern over safety since i feel anything you would do would be safe (seriously). I just want to be sure you are strictly following all the rules (not so seriously). :)

Seriously, we are following everything we can think of. And at the same time we are trying to allow fun to happen. I think the VOA has put together a good plan. Now if we can get the budget squared away............
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Re: Leaders trying to get around Tour Permits

Postby FrankJ » Fri May 22, 2009 3:59 pm

Sounds like a lot of fun. Good luck with it. Maybe this winter you could have a myth busters boat race with ice & cardboard boats. Just try getting the explosives to blow them up at the end past risk management. :shock:


Just to get a little bit back on topic. I filed the online tour permit for my crew to do BRAG (Bicycle ride across Georgia today). Got it back in about two hours.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
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