Ski Trip and Lodging

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Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:15 am

Two moms in our troop would like to take six boys on a ski trip this January to work on their Snow Sports badges. Each mom would be taking one of their own sons. I have a question about lodging. Can the two moms AND their two sons share a room, with the other four Scouts in an adjoining room? What if there is a male ASM with the other four?

They're trying to figure it out with the fewest hotel rooms as possible (please don't suggest camping; it will be 12 degrees and they'll need to rest comfortably for ski lessons during the day).

Does it violate YP if the sons sleep with their moms since they are unrelated families? (They've done this long before they joined Scouts, but obviously YPT didn't apply then.) Do the other Scouts need an adult if they're in an adjoining room? This would be a Merit Badge activity rather than a Troop activity.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby 9009scoutmaster » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:54 am

Good question. I would have to say 3 rooms, but I can not fault you if you have 2 rooms.
Is this the correct yp responce, I do not know. Another male adult would mean another room.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby Quailman » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:22 am

Take two small tents.

Set them up in the room.

Leaders sleep in one; scouts in the other.

Did you figure out yet that I don't have a good solution or answer?
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby FrankJ » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:02 am

G2SS strictly read would say no. With the moms & sons sharing a room, if they are family friends & already doing it outside of scouting, I would tell them to do what they could to create a separate space in the room. The unrelated ASM needs a separate room from the boys.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby OldGreyBear » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:16 pm

Since cost is an issue, but there will be several attendees, can you see of the hotel has a suite available? With separate bedroom(s) from a living area that would help separate the parties but not be as expensive as multiple rooms?
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby alex gregory » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:26 pm

Why can't all the boys sleep in one room and the moms sleep in the adjoining room? If scouts can sleep on the ground I trust they can sleep on a floor.

Only a parent/guardian and his/her child(ren) may share a common sleeping area. The tent in the room idea is a possibility, but is it practical and are you not still sharing the same sleeping quarters and a common bathroom? Remember that YP is as much about protecting the adults from accusation (arguably more) as it is about protecting the minors.

Our troop has a yearly winter trip to a leader's vacation house in Sun River, Oregon. The house itself is too small to accomodate all the scouts and leaders. The guys sleep outdoors in tents (yes it's cold), the Grizzly Adams leaders also sleep outdoors, most of the male adults share a bedroom in the cabin, and the female adults share the other bedroom (usually one lucky mom gets the whole room to herself). Not sure if that arrangment will work if you are not staying in a private home with a yard.

Our troop also schedules a February outing at a BSA lodge/bunkhouse that is set up for YP and all that good stuff. I know that boy scouts can also reserve and use the local GSA lodge (which is a lot nicer than the BSA property). Check out what the BSA and GSA have available, it may be a lot cheaper than a hotel/motel and definitely more rustic. The BSA and GSA properties on Mt. Hood, Oregon are 30 minutes or less drive to the slopes, and one property is on the ski slope (pretty cool in every sense of the word).
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby alex gregory » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:28 pm

P.S. the male ASM and female adults cannot share a room, and the more I think about the tent in the room idea the less I like it.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:20 pm

OldGreyBear wrote:Since cost is an issue, but there will be several attendees, can you see of the hotel has a suite available? With separate bedroom(s) from a living area that would help separate the parties but not be as expensive as multiple rooms?


Excellent idea. So is putting all the Scouts in one room -- fire codes be ****ed ;-). The suite is a little cheaper than two rooms.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will pass them on.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby deweylure » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:53 am

It seems to me they want this to be a troop activity. In that case the moms must register and have the proper training required. AS far as lodging goes YPT prevails.

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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:03 am

No, not a troop activity -- a merit badge activity, restricted to certain Scouts by age, rank, and maturity. The moms in question are just moms (one's a registered MBC with training, though the ski area would be providing the Snow Sports MBC). I forwarded your suggestions. The ASM won't be going. Making it a "troop activity" would mean it was open to all and would require paperwork that they're unwilling to do. It would quickly become a trip for 4 instead of a trip for 8. They're taking the other 4 as a favor to the Scouts.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby OldGreyBear » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:44 am

Moms have to register to go on an overnight?
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby FrankJ » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:34 am

Youth protection requires at one registered adult & one parent. At least one must be over 21 & at least one must be YPT. Registered MBC would count as for G2SS goes although it would be reasonable for the troop or the council to require some one registered with the troop as well. G2SS would also require a male leader.

If this is a family & friends outing with merit badge work thrown in, then the trip rules really do not apply. Just make it clear to all involved that it is a family vacation & not a troop activity & they will not be covered under BSA insurance.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby alex gregory » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:32 pm

I love a slippery slope when I go skiing.

If it's a family and friends trip, keep it to family and friends and you can ignore all those pesky BSA rules. But be careful, the trip as originally described sounds a lot like a troop sanctioned activity to me. A trip that is "restricted to certain Scouts by age, rank, and maturity" is a lot more like a scouting event as opposed to family vacation with a merit badge activity thrown in for kicks. Good luck if somethings bad happens to somebody else's son.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:28 pm

My recommendation:

Have both Moms review the G2SS under Winter Sports.

This should have the effect of them wanting to have a Tour Permit to cover themselves as well as the scouts. Doesn't matter what you want to call it (Troop, Patrol, MB class), this type of activity is not a Summer hike and can be dangerous. You don't mention the age/experience levels of the boys.

As far as sleeping arrangements, boys in one room, moms in another either as a suite or adjoining rooms.
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Re: Ski Trip and Lodging

Postby riverwalk » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:00 pm

Get your District's H&S persone to weigh in or ask Council. But Scouters are to be separated from youth in lodging. Parents and their youth are never a lodging problem, yet one has to account for how the other youth are protected.
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