Tour Permit Implications?

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Tour Permit Implications?

Postby fritz1255 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:40 pm

A much-discussed (and cussed) topic. We always fill out a Tour Permit for all activities other than regular Troop and Patrol meetings. Only takes a few minutes, and keeps us legal. Or does it? Having to file it a couple of weeks before the event means that the roster of Scouts and adults/drivers is never perfectly accurate. Sometimes even the Tour Leader or Assistant Tour Leader are not the same as listed on the permit. Has anyone (actual experience, no urban legends, please) ever:

1) Filed a claim with the insurance compsany that supposedly covers you on Scout-sanctioned events covered by the Tour Permit. We pay $1/person/year, which means that not too many claims are being paid.

2) Had your Tour Permit used as evidence in legal proceedings following some sort of incident that occurred at a Scout event? How did that turn out?
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Tour permits

Postby USforester » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:38 pm

More simply put, try filing a claim without have a properly approved tour permit. The permits are designed by council or national and if they think its OK then that's fine by me.
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Postby fritz1255 » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:36 pm

While I am OK with filling these out and getting them approved, what I really want to know is whether this is actually buying us anything, or is just keeping someone at Council employed approving them.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:43 am

Well, insurance and compliance with various programs aside (neither of which are insignificant reasons to have the permit), here is an example that was given to me.

Scout comes with Troop on some outing/function. One or both parents are injured. Grandparents need Scout, know he is with Scouts but don't know where. They contact Boy Scouts somewhere and knowing the area are put in touch with local Council. Here is where the Tour Permit comes in:

Without Tour Permit - Local Council says "Don't know anything about it". They may or may not be able to find out.

With Tour Permit - Local Council has all the info and presents the "Be Prepared" type appearance that we are trying to have.

Real or urban myth? Don't know. Don't really care. The potential scenario could happen and if it ever does 1 time then the time to fill them out has been worth it.

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Postby FrankJ » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:05 pm

Filling out a tour permit forces the what, why, when, & where elements of preplaning a trip. Things that should be done for any outing. Having the permit would show interested parties that the trip is legimate if issues come up

A roster is not required for the tour permit which is good since it always changes at the last minute.

I have been told that scouts would be covered by insurance with or without the permit.
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Outings

Postby riverwalk » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:21 pm

Do the Permits, then you'll have BSA on your legal team so-to-speak, unless other violations are discovered. As far as rosters, one could carry a current one with them if they thought it helpful. It's biggest use would be in emergency contact back to families I think. Besides, whatever Council has in their system on your Unit...is never accurate, in my own observation anyway.
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Postby evmori » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:55 pm

We complete tour permits for everything except Troop meetings. They are not that hard to fill out!
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Postby FrankJ » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:47 pm

You should be carrying at least a class 1 medical form for each member of an outing (G2SS). I would want to have a roster of who was attending for almost any outing.

Council policies seem to vary a little on when a tour permit are actually required although the questions on the permit are one you should be asking regardless.
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Postby fritz1255 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:31 am

We are going camping this weekend at our Council Scout Camp (same one used for summer camp). I filed a Tour Permit per usual. On the cover sheet that was faxxed back to me with the approved Tour Permit, the person at Council who handles this wrote: "You do not actually need a Tour Permit for trips within the county [our district covers the entire county] or at our camps." This seems to run contrary to some of the replies to my original message. The implication is that we can have events within the geographical confines of the Council without any notification at all. Makes very little sense to me.
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Postby FrankJ » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:58 am

Policy for local tour permits is set by council. Our councils doesn't require them for trips to council property. I do not know what, if any, guidance is provided to councils by National.
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Postby evmori » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:23 pm

FrankJ wrote:Policy for local tour permits is set by council. Our councils doesn't require them for trips to council property. I do not know what, if any, guidance is provided to councils by National.


My understanding is if you don't file a tour permit for a trip regardless of where, you unit insurance will not pay.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:27 pm

that can happen and may happen soon
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Postby jr56 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:59 pm

I don't understand Ed, if your insurance won't pay if you don't fill out a tour permit, then why is one not required for Council events?
I do agree with you, if in doubt, file it, it's not that hard to do.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:05 pm

They are required for all events councils do away with thyem on their own for their activities. File one and be safe
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Postby evmori » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:33 pm

Not my insurance jr56, my Troop insurance won't pay if I don't fill out a tour permit. So we do for all outings.
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Postby jr56 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:39 pm

Thanks Ed, I'll take your word for it, never encountered that problem myself. I think our council provides our liablility insurance for us, I don't believe we have a unit policy on our own. But like you said, it's not that big of a deal to fill out tour permits for all outings.
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Postby deweylure » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:22 pm

tour permits are needed and required . We actually had a permit be rejected since the drivers insurance policy did not have enough coverage.

In this case it was on my vehicle and in order to get the permit I had to raise my coverage. I had full coverage on the vehicle at the time.

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Postby WeeWillie » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:34 am

There are always unforeseen situations. Last April I got very sick the night before a troop hike that I was the trip leader. I simply sent an e-mail to council explaining the situation and had the assistant tour leader resign the form as tour leader with another adult as assistant. Council's reply was "thanks." I've had drivers cancel for various reasons.

The primary purpose of tour permits is to notify your council that you are having an event and that you are applying the G2SS to your event. Had the April event been a float trip and I was the only Safety Aloat, CPR leader, the event would have been cancelled. HINT: Never have only 1 qualified adult.
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