First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

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First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby divekermit » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:09 am

Greetings,

International protocols for first aid released in Oct 2010 changed the order of layperson CPR to compressions first...CAB (Compressions - Airway - Breathing). Every first aid provider has incorporated these changes into their materials. The First Aid Merit Badge book, published in 2011, retains the older ABCD order for CPR.

Does anyone have any idea if this was just a timing problem (not enough time to incorporate changes in this edition) or was this a deliberate omission? My group teaches dozens of first aid merit badge classes annually in the Denver area. We are teaching the current protocols and telling the participants that the BSA book just has not caught up yet. Anyone know if they are planning on another edition?

We would welcome discussion and comments on this topic, pls.

- Explorer Post 525, the Aurora Medical Team
Our FMB page: http://www.auroramedteam.org/support-se ... erit-badge
++++++++++++++++
Ed Wade
Explorer Post 525, Aurora Medical Team
http://www.auroramedteam.org
Aurora, Colorado
ph 303-680-1507
ed@auroramedteam.org
++++++++++++++++
divekermit
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Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:06 pm

The first aide MBC requires knowledge of & not a certification. There is an email address for suggesting changes to merit badge. I would think that MBC would be changed to be in line with the Red Cross position on this. Otherwise it is a good discussion point on how suggested care changes over time. If the scout is certified in CPR he should do it as he is trained in certification class. Same as the instructor.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
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Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby divekermit » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:20 pm

Frank, Thanks for posting back. Regarding: "The first aide MBC requires knowledge of & not a certification. There is an email address for suggesting changes to merit badge...."

Yes, FMB is only familiarization, not certification. However, my group does not feel it would be correct to teach "ABCDs" (as shown in the current FMB 2011 book) when the current protocols are "CAB" plus AED. We posted here as we are interested in how other FMB presenters are handling this issue when they teach.

The top of the food chain for CPR protocols is American Heart Association, who publish the ECC (Emergency Cardiac Care) standards. CPR compliance in America is measured against their guidance. American Red Cross is one of several national providers that either aligns (or do not align) with American Heart ECC directives.

Specifically, we don't feel that teaching scouts to look-listen-feel or checking for pulse would be appropriate. This was specifically removed from CPR at the October 2010 global announcement.

The October 2010 changes for non-certified CPR volunteers is to perform hand-only continuous compressions. This has been a published change since 2005. I can understand a local FMB instructor choosing to demonstrate this, rather than full CPR, since the scouts are not receiving a certified CPR card.

You mentioned an email to submit this information to the national BSA office. Can you point me in the right direction on where to find that? Post here, please. Otherwise I'll wait for some more feedback on this forum before I start calling around Irving to find the staffer responsible for the FMB book.

Thanks!
++++++++++++++++
Ed Wade
Explorer Post 525, Aurora Medical Team
http://www.auroramedteam.org
Aurora, Colorado
ph 303-680-1507
ed@auroramedteam.org
++++++++++++++++
divekermit
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Location: Aurora, Colorado

Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:05 pm

I sent your question to National this AM and will post their response when I get it.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
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Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby divekermit » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:19 pm

Smtroop168,

Thanks! I'll await their answer.

Ed
++++++++++++++++
Ed Wade
Explorer Post 525, Aurora Medical Team
http://www.auroramedteam.org
Aurora, Colorado
ph 303-680-1507
ed@auroramedteam.org
++++++++++++++++
divekermit
Scout
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:25 am
Location: Aurora, Colorado

Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:36 pm

From National:

"The First Aid merit badge pamphlet is currently being updated by our volunteer task force."
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
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Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby divekermit » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:05 pm

Excellent. That's the answer I hoped we would get.

My take on this would be for first aid merit badge counselors to complete a certified CPR/AED class from a national agency and incorporate the new CPR protocols into the CPR familiarization for their scouts. Teaching this material as listed in the First Aid Merit Badge book will be putting out incorrect information. This would provide a bridge in our presentations until the new book is released.

Blogs do work (sometimes). <grin>

Ed
++++++++++++++++
Ed Wade
Explorer Post 525, Aurora Medical Team
http://www.auroramedteam.org
Aurora, Colorado
ph 303-680-1507
ed@auroramedteam.org
++++++++++++++++
divekermit
Scout
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:25 am
Location: Aurora, Colorado

Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:12 pm

While not a bad idea, a first aide MBC is not required to be certified in CPR. If you read the actual requirements for the MB it does not specify CPR procedure. So if you are the MBC you can use the current procedure & explain the book is out dated.. If the scout is certified in CPR, they should use the method they where certified under regardless what the MBC is taught. The scout might be a life guard & had a pro level CPR course. Excuse me if the terminology is not quite right.

The current recommendations are more based on the idea that people will more likely do CPR if they do not have to do breaths & the difficulty of a lay person to find a pulse rather than what it actually best. If advanced care is more than minutes away, just chest compressions is pointless.

The other point that should be driven home is first aide is really a continuing ed kind of thing. How what you should do based on available resources is also a good discussion point. Unless you are only going to be where calling 911 and waiting is viable option. :)

Sounds like you got great ideas. Almost makes me want to live in Denver rather than god's country.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
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Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby FrankJ » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:56 pm

Matt: you hear anything from national from your query?
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: First Aid CAB vs ABC ?

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:43 pm

FrankJ wrote:Matt: you hear anything from national from your query?





smtroop168 wrote:From National:

"The First Aid merit badge pamphlet is currently being updated by our volunteer task force."
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
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Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:37 pm
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