Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

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Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby pandabear » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:35 pm

For the Camping Merit Badge (http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Camping), do we have to do 20 Days OR 20 Nights, or 20 Days AND 20 nights?
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby FrankJ » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:43 pm

Its 20 days and twenty nights. The key word is AND. Although I have to admit that as a MBC, I pretty much count the nights and assume that there is a day associated with them. And lets not get into a debate of what "is" means. :)
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby smtroop168 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:37 pm

pandabear wrote:For the Camping Merit Badge (http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Camping), do we have to do 20 Days OR 20 Nights, or 20 Days AND 20 nights?


Welcome to the forum. 20 nights. It is my understanding in the 2012 BSA Requirements Book that the wording of this requirement will drop the "days" word out of it and also define one week of long term camp as 6 nights.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby cballman » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:39 am

Camping Days and Nights would consist of leaving on Friday night to a campsite or area. Setup tents and cooking area. Either break down camp on Saturday morning to HIKE to another spot then repeat the setup stage. If not hiking then work on Scout skills with younger Scouts. Long term camp would be either a Summer Camp or Philmont or Boundrey Water canoe trip. Just setting up a tent and spending the night in it then going back int a house to play video games would not in my opinion count as any of these items. Now if you read all the requirements for the Merit Badge then you will see that there are more things to accomplsh than just spending the nights and days outside.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby FrankJ » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:01 pm

and also define one week of long term camp as 6 nights.


Can we get them to round PI to 3 while we are at it? :?: :)
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:46 pm

FrankJ wrote:
and also define one week of long term camp as 6 nights.


Can we get them to round PI to 3 while we are at it? :?: :)


Only if it's on a tandem! :lol:

Actually how many different interpretations of "a week" have we seen on the forum?

Also what is a Day of Camping anyway? :roll:
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby pandabear » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:18 pm

THanks you guys, much obliged.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:53 pm

smtroop168 wrote:It is my understanding in the 2012 BSA Requirements Book that the wording of this requirement will drop the "days" word out of it and also define one week of long term camp as 6 nights.


Taking that at face value then a camp that offers an eight day/seven night 'week' (Sat. to Sat.) would only count towards 6 nights of the 20 needed? The other night is then tossed onto the rubbish heap of effort without credit? It is an issue when you factor in that you are paying more for that extra night vs. a 7 day/6 night stay for those who have religious reasons for not arriving on Saturday.

On a similar note the local OA chapter adviser has defined long term camp as 5 nights for the purposes of meeting the camping requirement for OA membership. I think that has to do with the fact that the area summer camp (Levi Levi by Kingman, AZ) only does a Mon-Sat week, or 5 nights.

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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:58 pm

Reasonable Rascal wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:It is my understanding in the 2012 BSA Requirements Book that the wording of this requirement will drop the "days" word out of it and also define one week of long term camp as 6 nights.


Taking that at face value then a camp that offers an eight day/seven night 'week' (Sat. to Sat.) would only count towards 6 nights of the 20 needed? The other night is then tossed onto the rubbish heap of effort without credit? It is an issue when you factor in that you are paying more for that extra night vs. a 7 day/6 night stay for those who have religious reasons for not arriving on Saturday.

On a similar note the local OA chapter adviser has defined long term camp as 5 nights for the purposes of meeting the camping requirement for OA membership. I think that has to do with the fact that the area summer camp (Levi Levi by Kingman, AZ) only does a Mon-Sat week, or 5 nights.

RR


Thanks for making my point.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby FrankJ » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:51 pm

The OA has a definition for what they call a long term camp. They do not confuse it with a week. I don't really mind if they update the camping merit badge to something similar. I just wish they wouldn't call it a week. Oh well at least it is not SI units. You get double points if it is a tandem camp.

The extra day would not be tossed on the rubbish heap; it just wouldn't count towards the camping merit badge. :wink:
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:23 pm

FrankJ wrote:The OA has a definition for what they call a long term camp. They do not confuse it with a week. I don't really mind if they update the camping merit badge to something similar. I just wish they wouldn't call it a week. Oh well at least it is not SI units. You get double points if it is a tandem camp.

The extra day would not be tossed on the rubbish heap; it just wouldn't count towards the camping merit badge. :wink:


The term "week" is also disappearing in the 2012 book.

The OA can do whatever they want and write it however they choose to meet their eligibility requirements. Being in the OA is not a BSA advancement requirement. Camping MB is.

Please don't refer to anything the scouts do as being thrown on the rubbish pile just because it doesn't count. The 7th hour of service for Life requirement is just as valuable as the 6 that get the requirement signed off.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:28 am

Please don't refer to anything the scouts do as being thrown on the rubbish pile just because it doesn't count.



That is exactly my point. a good program should stand on its own. Meeting a advancement requirements should be a byproduct. Actually having 20 nights should be seldom a issue.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby WeeWillie » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:42 am

During the extra day at camp you can take a hike up to the Mogollon Rim, complete a service project, plan and prepare a meal. All three meet Camping MB requirements.

I don't understand the rush to advance Scouts as quickly and effortlessly as possible.

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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby kwildman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:48 pm

i am with you WeeWillie.

The camping requirements should occur naturally and are easily obtainable by the second year of scouting if the youth is reasonably active in a good troop. Over the last five years our troop has averaged 25 nights of camping per year. The harder part is to make sure that they get their "special" camping requirements in such as canoeing, biking, hiking,etc. Unfortunately in ohio we can't gain 1000 vertical feet unless we dig a pretty deep hole to start in. :lol:
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby scoutaholic » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:23 pm

kwildman wrote:... The camping requirements should occur naturally and are easily obtainable by the second year of scouting if the youth is reasonably active in a good troop. Over the last five years our troop has averaged 25 nights of camping per year. The harder part is to make sure that they get their "special" camping requirements in such as canoeing, biking, hiking,etc. Unfortunately in ohio we can't gain 1000 vertical feet unless we dig a pretty deep hole to start in. :lol:


Here in Utah, 99% of the troops are charted by the LDS church. The LDS church has it's own camping rules that limit the availability of camping nights for most scouts. LDS rules don't allow Sunday camping, so weekend camps are usually only 1 night. All the local camps standard programs are Monday-Saturday. The year-round camping award in our council is based on having a camp in 10 of the 12 months. If summer camp is the week spanning July and August, the year-round camp award only requires 8 other nights, for a total of 13 nights in the year.

Young LDS scouts are only allowed 3 nights prior to their 12th Birthday. Based on those numbers, if they attend every camp, they will need 4 nights after they turn 13. Few troops actually do the year-round camping, and few boys attend every camp, so are usually finishing their 20 nights about the time they turn 14.

When I was SM, we camped the 13-14 nights/year. Since I stepped down, the troop has not continued that tradition. Some of the current boys are turning 15, and still haven't had the opportunity to camp 20 nights with the troop.

Fortunately, Utah does not have the same problem as you do in Ohio. All 6 of the options for Requirement 9b are readily available without much travel. It would take careful planning to do a hike of any distance without gaining 1000 vertical feet.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby cdwscout » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Including summer camp, our troop here in South Texas camps 10 out of 12 months a year, so we get about 24 nights a year. All our weekend campouts are two nights, though some people leave early and sometimes we get rained out. Obviously, our May/August campouts are much more popular than our December/January campouts, but we survive. I guess it just depends on the local climate for the camping nights/year.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:43 pm

I guess it just depends on the local climate for the camping nights/year.


Just points out the difficulty of writing national requirements for climates like Alaska & Alabama. Rural & urban troops. It why the new GTA actually says you have to use common sense.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby scoutaholic » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:26 am

cdwscout wrote:Including summer camp, our troop here in South Texas camps 10 out of 12 months a year, so we get about 24 nights a year. All our weekend campouts are two nights, though some people leave early and sometimes we get rained out. Obviously, our May/August campouts are much more popular than our December/January campouts, but we survive. I guess it just depends on the local climate for the camping nights/year.

I always told my scouts, 'we will camp weather or not.' There were 2-3 occasions I remember altering activities for the day, but I never cancelled the camp. It wasn't the weather climate that kept us from camping more, it was the CO/Religious climate.

As District Vice-Chair over camping, I have been surprised by the participation numbers at camps. Our district winter camp is always the best attended, sometimes as many as 250+ scouts. Apparently they prefer when it is -20 degrees, because we have never had more than 125 at a spring or fall camp. One spring we had 32 boys, who enjoyed beautiful sunny warm weather for the activities.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby cdwscout » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:55 am

scoutaholic wrote:
cdwscout wrote:Including summer camp, our troop here in South Texas camps 10 out of 12 months a year, so we get about 24 nights a year. All our weekend campouts are two nights, though some people leave early and sometimes we get rained out. Obviously, our May/August campouts are much more popular than our December/January campouts, but we survive. I guess it just depends on the local climate for the camping nights/year.

I always told my scouts, 'we will camp weather or not.' There were 2-3 occasions I remember altering activities for the day, but I never cancelled the camp. It wasn't the weather climate that kept us from camping more, it was the CO/Religious climate.


Our troop camps with families in one area, scouts in another, so individual families will sometime choose to leave. Also, if the family towing the trailer with scout gear ends up leaving, then everybody has to either leave or use their own gear.
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Re: Camping Merit badge Days/Nights Requirement

Postby Quailman » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:09 pm

FrankJ wrote:
I guess it just depends on the local climate for the camping nights/year.


Just points out the difficulty of writing national requirements for climates like Alaska & Alabama. Rural & urban troops. It why the new GTA actually says you have to use common sense.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.


Since you mentioned Alaska....

I went backpacking near McCarthy, Alaska several years ago. Sunset was 11:45PM and sunrise was at 2:00AM. Would that count as a full night of camping or would I have to use a 3:1 conversion rate? :lol:
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