Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby PaulSWolf » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:26 pm

alex gregory wrote:Scoutaholic, Utah scouting is apparently very different from what we're doing in Oregon.
What Scoutaholic is describing isn't "Utah" Scouting, its Scouting in LDS (Mormon) Troops.Of course, many/most troops in Utah are affiliated with the LDS Church, so what he describes is quite common in Utah.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby kwildman » Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:43 am

i had two scouts get their camping merit badge in the first year but our troop averages 30 nights per year.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby Quailman » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:04 am

The harder thing for the boys in my troop is the hiking/rapelling/elevation gain part. We have a two-night weekend every month except July (summer camp) and August (sweltering).

I figured the "Utah" rules were really LDS idiosyncrasies. Even with that, I don't see a reason to try to rush the number of nights. If you make options available for covering the do-this-on-campout requirements, the number of nights will come for those boys who are serious about scouting. For those who are not, why try to fudge or game the system?
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby kwildman » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:24 pm

The winter camping experience is not hard when the boys cross over as they usually get baptized with snow right out of the gate in our January and February campouts. Canoe trips are a must for spring and fall.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby scoutaholic » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:53 pm

alex gregory wrote:I can't imagine a program that would limit camping to only 3 nights a year for 11-year olds, or refusing to let the younger guys camp with older scouts on all but the most adventurous outings. That's just so different from my experience in Scouting; but hey, if it works for you that's fine with me.

I didn't say it works for me. This is one of the many reasons I left the LDS/Mormon troop in which I had been SM for 10 years.

alex gregory wrote:Scoutaholic, Utah scouting is apparently very different from what we're doing in Oregon.

PaulSWolf wrote:What Scoutaholic is describing isn't "Utah" Scouting, its Scouting in LDS (Mormon) Troops. Of course, many/most troops in Utah are affiliated with the LDS Church, so what he describes is quite common in Utah.

Paul, you are correct. It is not actually 'Utah' scouting rules I was mentioning, but LDS/Mormon scouting. Around here it is pretty much the same thing, since 99.9% of Utah scouting units are chartered by LDS congregations. (I don't know the council numbers, but of the 200+ units in our district there is 1 pack, 1 troop, and 1 crew that are not LDS chartered.) In fact, I've found that if you ask a question for which the BSA answer is different from the LDS answer, our council staff is more likely to give you the LDS answer.
I could have just said Mormon scouting, but last time I did I got flamed because I said something negative about Mormons. (I am a Mormon, but that doesn't mean I agree with their version of scouting.)
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:22 pm

The boys' previous troop did 11 campouts a year -- but they were single night. #2's Camping badge will be his LAST Eagle badge earned. And it's going to require his patrol doing a campout just for him -- in order to meet the 9b requirement.

Because of some of the specific requirements for this badge, it's not necessarily one that boys get naturally. Depends upon the makeup of the troop, and the personality of the boy.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby alex gregory » Fri May 01, 2009 1:18 pm

AquilaNegra2 wrote:Because of some of the specific requirements for this badge, it's not necessarily one that boys get naturally. Depends upon the makeup of the troop, and the personality of the boy.


But it should be, at least as far as designing a troop program that allows scouts the opportunity to "naturally" earn the Camping MB. Individual personality issues can be hard to overcome, and if a boy just does not want to camp then the Camping MB will be a challenge, and maybe that boy will not earn his Eagle - life goes on.

Camping requirements 1 through 8 are pretty easy to satisfy over the course of 3 to 10 weekends of patrol camping.

Requirement 9(b) is really not that hard:
On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision:
1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet.
2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles.
3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.
4. Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.
5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.
6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

9(b) is easy if you plan camping outings around the above options. Heck, one weekend backpacking trip can satisfy the first two options (unless there is no hill in sight), and should also be long enough for Scouts who want to work on the backpacking MB. The troop program should be designed to offer the required camping experience options many times every year, not just because they are required for a MB, but because they are fun!

9(c) is also very simple. Have your Scouts ask staff at summer camp for a conservation project that they can work on over the course of a week.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby international » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:40 am

AquilaNegra2 wrote:The boys' previous troop did 11 campouts a year -- but they were single night. #2's Camping badge will be his LAST Eagle badge earned. And it's going to require his patrol doing a campout just for him -- in order to meet the 9b requirement.

My kid is kind of in the same boat, so I was wondering if it would be OK for him to camp with another Troop to finish the req.?

Thanks :)
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby PaulSWolf » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:42 pm

international wrote:My kid is kind of in the same boat, so I was wondering if it would be OK for him to camp with another Troop to finish the req.?

Thanks :)
Sure. The requirement reads, in part:
Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event.
So, as long as it's a designated Scouting activity or event, it should count.

BTW, please only hit the "Submit" button once. The server takes about 30-45 seconds or more to respond after the "Preview" or "Submit" button is hit before your message displays or posts. You wound up sending your message 3 times. I deleted the duplicates.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby international » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:27 pm

Thanks :)
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby smtroop168 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:01 pm

Your son's Camping MB counselor should be able to take care of this. Have your SON call him/her and discuss what needs to happen.

Remember its more than just 20 d/n it the subcategories of types of camping experience that must be fulfilled under 9b.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby international » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:10 am

smtroop168 wrote:Your son's Camping MB counselor should be able to take care of this. Have your SON call him/her and discuss what needs to happen.

Remember its more than just 20 d/n it the subcategories of types of camping experience that must be fulfilled under 9b.

=======================
Thank you for replying to my question.My son wanted to be sure it was OK to camp with another Troop before proposing it to the M.B. counselor.And yes,there are other requirements needed,actually, I think my son did them already, but I am not sure if it was recorded since he was not pursuing the M.B. at the time,so he's hoping that if he's able to camp with another Troop ,and since now he needs to finish the camping merit badge, everything will be recorded.

Thanks again
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby smtroop168 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:11 am

international wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:Your son's Camping MB counselor should be able to take care of this. Have your SON call him/her and discuss what needs to happen.

Remember its more than just 20 d/n it the subcategories of types of camping experience that must be fulfilled under 9b.

=======================
Thank you for replying to my question.My son wanted to be sure it was OK to camp with another Troop before proposing it to the M.B. counselor.And yes,there are other requirements needed,actually, I think my son did them already, but I am not sure if it was recorded since he was not pursuing the M.B. at the time,so he's hoping that if he's able to camp with another Troop ,and since now he needs to finish the camping merit badge, everything will be recorded.

Thanks again


Whether or not if he was pursuing the MB at the time, doesn't matter. Someone should have a record if he was on the event and the MBC can count it for him.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby international » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:39 pm

smtroop168 wrote:
international wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:Your son's Camping MB counselor should be able to take care of this. Have your SON call him/her and discuss what needs to happen.

Remember its more than just 20 d/n it the subcategories of types of camping experience that must be fulfilled under 9b.

=======================
Thank you for replying to my question.My son wanted to be sure it was OK to camp with another Troop before proposing it to the M.B. counselor.And yes,there are other requirements needed,actually, I think my son did them already, but I am not sure if it was recorded since he was not pursuing the M.B. at the time,so he's hoping that if he's able to camp with another Troop ,and since now he needs to finish the camping merit badge, everything will be recorded.

Thanks again


Whether or not if he was pursuing the MB at the time, doesn't matter. Someone should have a record if he was on the event and the MBC can count it for him.


--------------
I am trying to be VERY positive because my son is 2 months away from his 18th. birth day, and the Camping M.B. is the one that he really NEEDS and can't do without help from a Troop... so I want to think that YES all the thinks he did before should be recorded and count...but that doesn't always happen.It's been my experience anyway after almost almost 12 years with the BSA.

I know I hardly contribute to this message board (mostly because I find the BSA rules and program so confusing) but I do REALLY appreciate all the answers I can find on this site, and they have been a LOT of help every time I find myself wanting to bung my head into a wall LOL

That said, I do have another question (I am trying to find the right folder to put it on) so I want to thank all of you (in advance) for taking the time to give us the right answers,when we're going crazy. I have 3 boys in the program, I have a LOT of questions :)

THANKS :)
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby long beard » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:22 am

I suspect this is ambiguous to give merit badge counselors some freedom to interpret but it also does not hold all Scouts to the same standard. I have a Scout who wants to use 11 nights at Philmont last summer (3 nights in a tent pitched by Philmont staff and 8 nights on the trail) as well as 4 nights a previous summer at Goshen on Lenhok'sin--hike every day to different site. How many nights can I count? A strict interpretation would be 6 but I seemingly could credit him with 15. Any comments?
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:05 am

long beard wrote:I suspect this is ambiguous to give merit badge counselors some freedom to interpret but it also does not hold all Scouts to the same standard. I have a Scout who wants to use 11 nights at Philmont last summer (3 nights in a tent pitched by Philmont staff and 8 nights on the trail) as well as 4 nights a previous summer at Goshen on Lenhok'sin--hike every day to different site. How many nights can I count? A strict interpretation would be 6 but I seemingly could credit him with 15. Any comments?


Huh? The BSA requirements are written to hold all scouts to the same standard regardless of location. What is ambiguous 20 or 6?

I suspect since he has already started the MB he can continue under the previous requirements which say "a week" which was a bit ambiguous since some summer camps are Sun-Fri, Sun- Sat. A week is 7 days but since we dropped the term "days" and it just says nights, the "norm" seems to be 6 nights for most summer camps. Sun night to Sat AM. I see no 11 in a week.

My vote...give him 6.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby Quailman » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:36 am

Did that scout join after he turned 14? It is a rare scout who doesn't have 20 nights before going to Philmont. He should even have gotten several nights in the preparatory treks.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby ronin718 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:53 am

Seems to me the requirement is fairly clear... "You may use a week of long-term camp". Philmont would be considered a long-term camp event, and so would Lenhoksin. Can't use the full period of both. I'm fairly certain the spirit of the requirement is to get the boys out on multiple events, hence the restriction on long-term camping.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby FrankJ » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:06 am

I see long term camp as summer camp where the scout is staying in one place or a similar situation. For Philmont type situations base camp would fall in the long term category. Nights on the trail, setting your own tent & moving every day would be short term. Each camp site is a short term camp. Some thing the typical Seabase experience would be in the long term category.

Personally I only had this come up once. The scout in question had well more than twenty nights, but was a poor record keeper So it was more of a convenience.

Others might see it different, but then I am a renegade.
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Re: Camping Merit Badge - Nights requirements

Postby Billiken » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:22 pm

Our troop views Philmont/Northern Tier trips in the following way:

Each night counts because you are setting up and tearing down a new/different campsite every day.

However, the point/view has never come into question.
By the time one goes to a high adventure base, they usually have hit 20 nights and have Camping MB.

I've always believed that Requirement 9 should be 30 nights with up to 12 nights of long-term credit.
Just MHO.
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